1. TUG

    Eh, socialism has never been tried so how can it have failed???

    Jury is definitively out on Western Civilisation.

    Laissez faire capitalism? In this era of let them eat brioche, I find your hubris on behalf of Mises most amusing.

  2. TUG: Incorrect – Socialism was practised by the American Indians. If socialism worked it would be successful on its own.

    If you think my hubris is amusing check out the mess socialism leaves in its wake! Of course, there are those who think the state should decide everything, unfortunately I prefer to make my own decisions and as long as they don’t impede on the freedom of others, hence I am a libertarian.

    Capitalism is not wrong, the problem is governments tinkering with capitalistic markets and not allowing them to resolve naturally. The bubble we are in being the greatest evidence of that.

  3. TUG

    If you can’t figure out the irony of the example you’ve posted and contrast it with your held position of being a libertarian, then you’re really up the creek.

    The bubble was a result of unfettered capitalism, not enough regulation of people like you Karl, mortgage brokers, who behaved with very little regard for the welfare of their common man at that juncture in time. To come along and now suggest that capitalism has people’s best interests at heart, well, turkeys will continually vote for christmas but it won’t be a free run.

  4. if capitalism was left to its own devices we wouldn’t have this bubble, it is government interference in the capitalistic process that causes the issue. for instance: the artificially low rates after 2001, today in 2008 we will see the same thing happen again guaranteeing another bubble is not far off.

    socialism and communism are failed concepts, if the state must intervene their best move would be to introduce property tax or some meaningful form of speculation prevention.

    if we lived in the world that you must envisage – one where the state runs everything it would devolve into a society that would end up with a dictatorship or a communist regime, examples of good intentions gone wrong can be found from china to Zimbabwe.

    when I say libertarian it is from my belief on the ethos of how government might function, as for the markets I remain a capitalist. in any case , irrespective of what you may see as contradictions in my thinking, it is the contradiction in what I would describe as ‘right thinking’ that I witness in your views, the state cannot be left to control everything, it would be a disaster and has been proven to result in greater problems than capitalism ever created.

  5. TUG

    The people are the state, it is your inability to be able to see that and to differentiate from some big faceless monolith that leads you to these ponderous conclusions.

    Real socialism would imbue obligations and interest in all people to take as active as role as possible in self government for the benefit of the totality of society.

    I’m not suggesting socialism is an end point, I merely recognise the necessary journey leads through capitalism into socialism and then onto something else.

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